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In celebration of my second half century of life, BoPII was returned to its original state, lo those many years ago, when it had no one telling anyone what to do.

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 The Future of BOP2?
Skipjack
Posted: Oct 12 2007, 08:03 AM


Eastern Shore of Maryland


Group: Team Captain
Posts: 3,937
Member No.: 5
Joined: 4-October 06



I think it is a great book on how to run a franchise or how to look at most anything that operates in a marketplace.

The book, in my opinion is not about OBP or OPS. It is a book about knowing your assets, your limitations, your field of endeavor and then look for things of value which others have undervalued.

Beane with a small budget year after year comes up with a competetive team because he sees what is avaliable that is undervalued.

Defense has been under-valued (though it looks like Epstein values it and even Cashman), speed is under-valued, middle and long relief are under-valued. IN MY OPINION.

This post has been edited by Skipjack on Oct 12 2007, 09:31 AM


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My country right or wrong...if right then fight to keep it right, if wrong then fight to make it right.
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Puma170
Posted: Oct 12 2007, 09:43 AM


Member of the Unheard Majority


Group: Members
Posts: 1,859
Member No.: 17
Joined: 6-October 06



I did think of you Jack when the discussion turned to closers as it appears you and I agree with Beane's value of closers.

I figured I have avoided for as long as I could and if I wanted to have intelligent conversations on baseball, then I should be able to reference it.

I'll let you know (if you want) what I think of it when I am done...

PUMA


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I have an inherent eternal hope but it doesn't live and die by nightly box scores.

-Milt


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Skipjack
Posted: Oct 12 2007, 10:09 AM


Eastern Shore of Maryland


Group: Team Captain
Posts: 3,937
Member No.: 5
Joined: 4-October 06



QUOTE (Puma170 @ Oct 12 2007, 10:43 AM)
...I'll let you know (if you want) what I think of it when I am done...

I'd like that! I value your opinion Puma. Thanks.


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My country right or wrong...if right then fight to keep it right, if wrong then fight to make it right.
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Puma170
Posted: Oct 22 2007, 07:53 AM


Member of the Unheard Majority


Group: Members
Posts: 1,859
Member No.: 17
Joined: 6-October 06



Just finished up last night... I should have been done sooner but I have four books going at once right now and I got really sucked into one of them. Not to say that I didn't enjoy MoneyBall but it just wasn't where I was when I had time to read.

First of all, after reading the acknowledgements, did anyone else know that Michael Lewis is married to Tabitha Soren. I used to have a major crush on her. Sorry, just needed to get that off my chest.

I did enjoy the book. It was nice to hear about the inner workings of any big league front office. It seems like Beane approaches trades like a fantasy owner i.e. it is all about selling the idea of the trade and less about providing fair market value. I really like the idea of trading bull pen arms as they are the most volatile of all stocks. I don't think some of the things that I have heard about Beane ("He will trade anyone") isn't accurate. He will trade almost anyone but not his sacred cows with low cost and high OBP.

I also found it interesting how many former A's are now Orioles. Bradford being the exception but Miggy and Ramon apparently didn't fit the model of what they are trying to do in Oakland. That made them available to other teams and the O's are more than willing to throw money around to pick them up.

Finally, I found the explanation as to why their system doesn't work in the post season to be empty. I don't want to hear about small sample size. The system will work or it doesn't. A team that is built to be competitive during the season but not during the post-season is an incomplete team. I don't necessarily think that building a team the way that they do will not work in the post season but I also don't appreciate the cop out answer that the post season is all luck. I find it hard to believe that a system as analytical as the one that they implement would accept something as random as "luck" determines the World Series winner.

Generally, I thought it was a good read and that Lewis wrote it well. I like the premise that you can look at something from the inside and out and rethink established schools of thought. I don't if I agree with all the premises but I can see the merit of what they are preaching.

PUMA


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I have an inherent eternal hope but it doesn't live and die by nightly box scores.

-Milt


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Skipjack
Posted: Oct 22 2007, 08:04 AM


Eastern Shore of Maryland


Group: Team Captain
Posts: 3,937
Member No.: 5
Joined: 4-October 06



I think there is an enormous amount of luck in a baseball game. Well hit balls right at a fielder, umpires missing calls, inconsistent strike zones, managerial actions (line up decisions, bullpen decisions), 3rd base coaches decisions, missing signs, effects of sun, wind, bugs, etc.

There is a lot of discussion about the role of "luck" and the definition of "luck." Interesting.


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My country right or wrong...if right then fight to keep it right, if wrong then fight to make it right.
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Puma170
Posted: Oct 22 2007, 08:18 AM


Member of the Unheard Majority


Group: Members
Posts: 1,859
Member No.: 17
Joined: 6-October 06



QUOTE (Skipjack @ Oct 22 2007, 09:04 AM)
I think there is an enormous amount of luck in a baseball game. Well hit balls right at a fielder, umpires missing calls, inconsistent strike zones, managerial actions (line up decisions, bullpen decisions), 3rd base coaches decisions, missing signs, effects of sun, wind, bugs, etc.

There is a lot of discussion about the role of "luck" and the definition of "luck." Interesting.

I agree with you on that point Jack. I think that luck seems, at times, to be the only thing that a team survives on. Without the blow call at the plate during the NL play-in game, this Rockies run could easily been the stuff of fiction.

What bothers me is that Beane and his computer toters what to reduce the game down to just crunching numbers but then, when it matters most, say that there are no numbers to crunch and the it is all "luck" while in the same breathe not acknowledging that those same things can happen over the course of a season often enough to effect the out come.

I guess it just bothered me that their school of thought seemed inconsistent.

I did enjoy the questioning of scouts who ignore numbers and instead look at a kid and see a star no matter how they play. Arturo Rivas is an example of a guy that I heard scout after scout say looked like a legit big leaguer but he never produced. I think it is good that someone out there is questioning the "sacred cows" of scouting and standard statitics.

PUMA


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I have an inherent eternal hope but it doesn't live and die by nightly box scores.

-Milt


user posted image
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